Rev. Lee Stoneking Lies To The United Nations 39


I’m not sure I can properly express what a HUGE DEAL this post is to me. It started off benign enough… my Facebook feed was full of the video clip below. All the people I used to go to church with are excited because one of their own, an evangelist named Rev. Lee Stoneking, spoke before the United Nations.

I started this post with the intention of pointing out what it means to them – that even though the place was mostly empty and most of the people seem to be either boredly listening or ignoring him completely, that the TRUTH OF GOD has been PROCLAIMED to the UN. They want everyone to share the hell out of this video because they think it will accomplish something that he gives a testimony and reads their most favorite bible verse.

But as I started working, I got curious about the story he tells. And the more I dug (it didn’t take a lot, mind you) the more holes I found. By the time I was done, the only conclusion I can come to is that this man – who lives off the donations of people like my widowed Mother In Law, who “sacrificially give” whenever he preaches anywhere – has at best wildly exaggerated the story he’s been living on for more than a decade now.

Who Is Rev. Lee Stoneking?

For those of you not familiar with the United Pentecostal Church, let me explain. Preachers are rock stars. They’re better than the rest of the lowly “saints” who support their sometimes extravagant lifestyles with their tithe and offering money. Lee Stoneking is a rock-star-among-rock-stars. He is an Evangelist, which means doesn’t stay in one place and preach to a single church every week, he travels all over the world. If preachers are rock stars, Lee Stoneking is Elvis and The Beatles. Everyone in the UPC knows his name and if your church is big and important enough (or if you’ve spent money to go to a big enough conference) you’ve heard him in person. This guy is Royalty in the UPC.

He visited my church several times. He’s one of those guys who push miracles, story after story of this person or that person being healed or raised from the dead etc. Thats sort of his thing, he’s a “miracles guy.”  These stories are one of those things that keep the believers believing. You think, obviously this whole doctrine must be true, look what God can do! It never occurs to you that miracles of healing happen in other denominations, or that they happen for Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, and even Pagans throughout the centuries. You just believe that God is proving Truth by flexing His muscles.

It also really doesn’t hurt when the offering plate comes by for people to be so worked up. And apparently it also sells books, as I see Rev. Stoneking has made this story into a book as well.

So Here’s The Story:

Somehow or another, Rev. Stoneking got an invite to speak before the UN this week. Here is the video of his speech (its less than 7 minutes total) and he tells QUITE a story:

Several things to note:

1 – I can tell he has given this speech word for word in church after church around the world. I can even tell there are a few places he’s used to pausing for extended applause.

2. Note he says here that he was “clinically dead” for 45 minutes. Paramedics shocked his heart 10 times to bring him back. Of course they get no credit for his “resurrection.”

3. The paramedic said that every time they shocked him, his heart would beat a few times then stop.

4. The “paperwork was finished.” With him lying there on the stretcher the paramedics apparently had time to do paperwork and declare he was going to still be DOA when they made it to the hospital.

5. Blood was coagulated in his hands, arms feet and legs.

6. “Jesus stepped on board” the ambulance – this is no doubt one of his bigger applause lines – and he was healed/ raised from the dead in the ambulance.

But His Website Tells The Story Differently

According to “My Miracle Of Life And Deliverance” on Rev. Stoneking’s website:

“Nigel, an ambulance officer, responded to the airport call for help. Along with another officer with him and a paramedic who arrived shortly, they began to work for my recovery. After thirty minutes during which time there was no heartbeat nor breathing at all;  suddenly my heart and breathing began to function.  I was taken to the hospital.” (Emphasis mine.)

No heartbeat or breathing at all, 30 minutes instead of 45, and he woke up there in the airport before getting on the ambulance. It seems Rev. Stoneking’s “miracle” is one of those stories that get better the more it’s told. 

Those are just the facts he can’t agree with himself on. Besides the idea of the paperwork being dramatically filled out right there in the bustling Sydney Airport while Stoneking lay decomposing on a stretcher, there are other parts of this story that are just plain wrong.

Other “Facts” That Don’t Stand Up To Scrutiny

“The blood was coagulated in my hands, my arms, my feet and my legs.” Dramatic, huh? Lividity was starting to set! Call the folks from CSI…  Well, according to forensicpathologyonline.com, blood coagulation begins immediately upon death but isn’t noticeable until 30 minutes to an hour later. OK so far the story is still plausible. Except for this:

“In a body lying on its back, it first appears in the neck, then spreads over the entire back, with the exception of the parts directly pressed on, i.e. occipital scalp, calves and heels.”

So if Stoneking WERE really dead and the blood was really starting to coagulate, it wasn’t doing so in his hands, arms, legs and feet. That would only happen if he was decomposing standing up.

 “God removed the genetic marker for heart disease.” First of all, what Rev. Stoneking describes is a cardiac arrest, not a heart attack. There is a difference. According to the Mayo Clinic:

A heart attack differs from a condition in which your heart suddenly stops (sudden cardiac arrest, which occurs when an electrical disturbance disrupts your heart’s pumping action and causes blood to stop flowing to the rest of your body). A heart attack can cause cardiac arrest, but it’s not the only cause.

On his website, Rev. Stoneking says that one minute he was walking in the airport, looking up at the screens, and the next thing he remembers is waking up in the hospital. No chest pain, shortness of breath, etc. He just fell over out of the blue. This is the electrical disturbance type of cardiac arrest (also known as Ventricular Fibrillation as mentioned below), and it is not always attributable to heart disease.

Second of all, in 2004 when Stoneking had his DNA tested, there were 5 different genetic markers associated with myocardial infarction, and a dozen for heart disease in general. 13 new genetic markers for heart disease were discovered in 2011. So even IF Rev. Stoneking had been “healed of heart disease” the fact that ONE genetic marker for it is missing from his DNA is not a miracle by any stretch.

“After 6 minutes of no oxygen to the brain, there is irreparable brain damage.” That statement may be technically true, but there is no proof that Rev. Stoneking went over 6 minutes, much less 30 or 45 with no oxygen to the brain. Just google the term “declared dead” and you’ll find all kinds of stories of people doctors thought were dead who suddenly wake up in body bags or in the funeral home. It’s hard for paramedics to tell for absolutely certain that you’re not getting ANY oxygen to the brain, etc. That’s why they take you to the hospital, even if you are DOA, instead of straight to the morgue.

At the very least, Rev. Stoneking is guilty of gross exaggeration. But beyond the fact that he really did have a heart attack and spend time in a hospital in Australia in 2003, how do we know the rest of the story isn’t completely made up? I have to admit I NEVER would have wondered that even a year ago. I never would have questioned “Brother” Stoneking’s sincerity or honesty. But considering all of the above.. well…

Rev. Stoneking’s “Proof” Of His Story

Of course, anyone with a brain has to know there are going to be skeptics of a story like this. And if you’re going to make it the cornerstone of your ministry for a decade or more (he was quite successful before this, mind you – but this did take him to a new level) then you need some proof. Right?

Well, there is an “Official Medical Report” posted on the “My Miracle” page of Stoneking’s website. But while it claims to be an “Official Medical Report,” it’s clearly anything but.

For starters, the first line says, “On November 12, 2003, Brother Stoneking suffered a cardiac arrest due to a massive heart attack.” No official medical document refers to you by the title “Brother.” This “Official” report is signed by Dr. Jeff Young, Jr, who is clearly not an objective observer. He appears to be Rev. Stoneking’s regular Physician and – due to the repeated use of the term “Brother” – it’s likely he, too is a member of the UPC.

Dr. Young was not present for the actual event, nor does it seem he traveled to Australia to care for Rev. Stoneking. What he gives therefore cannot justly be called an “Official Medical Report” of this event. That would need to come from the physician who actually treated Rev. Stoneking when all this happened. It would come on letterhead of the hospital in which Rev. Stoneking was treated. So what we have here is merely medical opinion provided by Stoneking’s regular doctor.

It seems that an actual report from the attending physician does exist, as Dr. Young quotes from it. Why not publish the actual medical report if it backs up your story? My guess is because it doesn’t. And quite frankly, this opinion being labeled an “Official Medical Report” makes me doubt the story even more. That was before I realized the quote Dr. Young uses from the attending physician actually undermines the whole story. The quote Dr. Young uses in his “report” says:

“Even with intubation (a breathing tube in place), paramedic CPR and repeated cardioversions (shocks to the heart—ten total shocks! ), a stable rhythm (heartbeat) and output (circulation) was not gained for thirty minutes.”

The words in parenthesis are Dr. Young’s explanations. But get this… there was a breathing tube in place. I thought there was 45 minutes of Oxygen deprivation? Or at least 30. Remember, the website version of the story says “No heartbeat or breathing at all.” Maybe he wasn’t breathing on his own, but there was breathing being done for him. Also, the attending physician says that a STABLE output was not gained for thirty minutes. Not NO output.

At this point I should mention that I’m not a doctor and perhaps I’m misunderstanding medical terminology? Does not having a “stable rhythm and output” mean NO heartbeat/ circulation or does it mean one is there but it’s too weak or unstable to keep you alive? It sounds to me like the second. But if I am wrong I do hope someone will point this out.

Still, think about this logically. The paramedics in Australia didn’t know who this man was – he was just another traveler to them. Why did they shock him 10 times? Why would you shock anyone 10 times if the first 3 or 4 aren’t working? That makes no sense. There had to be something to cause them to continue shocking him after the standard 4 times. (Assuming that he really was defibrillated 10 times and that this, too, isn’t another exaggeration.)

Could it be that what Rev. Stoneking experienced wasn’t a stopped heart that knocked him flat on his back and didn’t start back up again for 45 minutes, but a more typical-sounding heart attack? It seems much more likely that Stoneking’s heart attack caused his heart to stop not once for 45 minutes, but a few separate times. Each time a series of 2-3 shocks were given that started it back up for a brief period, then it would stop again until finally the paramedics were able to stabilize him enough to get him to the hospital.

Yes, he’s lucky to be alive. The miracle here isn’t that “Jesus stepped onto an ambulance” but that paramedics got to him with a defibrillator in time. It seems to me the version he tells in this video shortchanges the heroic efforts of the humans who worked so hard to save him. Of course if he told the unvarnished truth, he’d still have a dramatic story – just not one he could grow his ministry on.

Can We Really Call This Lying?

Yes, we can. Know why?

You see, there’s this Bible verse that says “All liars will have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone.” Back in the day there was this huge movement – someone wrote a booklet or sermon, I don’t remember how it started now, but I remember reading it – saying ALL means ALL. ANY lie counts. If someone asks you how you’re doing and you feel sick but you say “fine” you’re lying and you’re going to Hell.

So yeah, I think we can say claiming you were “clinically dead for 45 minutes” when in reality you were on a breathing tube for 30 counts as a lie. Saying Jesus stepped onto an ambulance to heal you when in fact you were stabilized before getting on the ambulance is a lie. Claiming you are a miracle because THE genetic marker for heart disease isn’t present in your DNA when there are literally dozens of possible such markers is a lie. Claiming the blood had coagulated in your hands, arms, feet and legs when blood doesn’t do that is a lie.

And yes, I’m beating a dead horse. If anyone from the UPC reads this, it will take a mountain of evidence to make them look at it remotely objectively. I’ve been out for several years and it shocked the hell out of me today. If you’re not from this type of background and you’ve read this far – I wish you could understand how big of a deal this is. These people, this man in particular, are supposed to be above reproach. Above criticism. And he went before the United Nations today – which is supposed to be a huge victory for the whole organization – and lied.

It’s huge.


Update April 2016: The comment thread on this post is getting quite long, and redundant. I will no longer approve comments that don’t add something new to the discussion. Which means if all you have to say is, “He’s not lying because Jesus” your comment will be deleted without notice. I also refer everyone to the Blog Rules as a reminder of how little I care about your condemnation of my soul or threats of judgement. I’m too busy dancing naked under the moon. Blessed Be.


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39 thoughts on “Rev. Lee Stoneking Lies To The United Nations

    • agnosticpoet

      Hi. I am an ex Pentecostal as well. I have heard his story and been to his website and noticed all of the same holes you did. Unfortunately my family is still caught in the Pentecostal trap. I recently had an argument with a few family members and pointed out the same holes in his story. Unfortunately I’m not a doctor and my words mean little to my family. I bought the book so I could further pick apart his story but it’s the same info as the website. Of course there are no pictures of any of the Xrays. Only of the doctors looking at the xrays. Also Dr. Young is the song of a Pentecostal pastor. Anyway I am interested in further exposing the true situation. I found contact info from the sydney Dr. Pitney. And am going to get in contact with him and hopefully get more of the truth out of him.

      • admin Post author

        Hail and welcome! It’s hard for people who haven’t been in this to get what a big deal it is. I was wondering about the book, but not enough to actually give him money for it so kudos there. And thanks for the confirmation on Dr. Young, I knew he had to be Pentecostal. I’d love to hear what Dr. Pitney in Australia has to say… If their privacy laws are anything like ours though he may not be able to talk to anyone. But it wouldn’t it be awesome to get some actual truth to show to the people who supposedly corner the market on Truth??

        Did your family have any kind of retort, or just like the commenter here, “it must be true because Jesus?”

        • aussieapple

          I do understand your concern here. But having been a part of the UPC for over 10 years and seeing the blinding hold they have upon people, do you think presenting them with ‘evidence’ is really going to change their minds? Most of their experience is based on feelings and emotions and I’m not sure whether trying to disprove someone is going to change anything. Just my 2 cents.. Thanks for an interesting read :) especially at 5 am when I’m struggling to get through another night shift.

          • admin Post author

            Well I have to say I am truly excited to hear from you! Your perspective as someone who works with the Ambulance Service is extremely interesting. I love the swiss cheese metaphor!

            I, too, met Rev. Stoneking back in my days in the UPC and never in a million years would have believed he was being dishonest either. But the more I look into this, the more I have become convinced of that fact. If you have time, check out the article about his story on Osama’s wives. Lois over at spiritualabuse.org has done some further work on this, even found the person the story is about (a Rev. C.P. Thomas) telling the original story – and it is completely different from Stoneking’s version. Also, regarding his “miraculous” healing… she has also found an internet archive of his website in the weeks following his heart attack. There is no miracle of healing described there, just a long, slow healing process with much prayer and financial support being sent his way. You can see this archive here: http://web.archive.org/web/20040614153451/http://www.timesofrefreshing.cc/LEESTONEKINGUPDATE.html

            Will these facts change the mind of any in the UPC? I don’t know. It certainly has more of a chance by being exposed than if we all just ignored it. If nothing else, if enough people start calling these guys on BS maybe they will straighten themselves up and apply the same standards of honesty they’d apply to the “saints” in their churches. My former pastor used to preach all the time about Ananias and Sapphira, who dropped dead after lying to the Apostles. They could have kept their money, they could have done whatever they wanted with it, but they lied and so they died. How is what Stoneking is saying less of a lie than that?

  • yawgentle

    If the man says he had a heart attack and came back to life, attributing the credit to Jesus Christ, it is a personal experience that you and I can not validate because we weren’t there. And it happened in a restaurant at a busy airport so there were eye witnesses too. Unless we go back to Sydney Australia and verify all the info, we have no credibility to conclude whether it’s a lie or the truth.

    Now if he had attributed the credit to someone else rather than Jesus then I would be skeptical about the whole story. But he says Jesus stepped into the ambulance. And you and I know that Jesus is the only one who could do that. Because He has a proven record. So where is your worry my friend?

    • admin Post author

      You either didn’t read the article, or you’re so brainwashed by this cult that you can’t see objectively. The latter is probably true, and you’ll probably see it as a compliment. There were eyewitnesses yes – but we never hear from them. And seriously – if a man anywhere were publicly dead for 30 or 45 minutes or whatever (it will be an hour by the time he’s done no doubt) and miraculously started breathing again and came back to life out of the blue – that would make the news. The eyewitnesses would be telling everyone.

      I do have credibility to judge based upon the facts from Rev. Stoneking’s own mouth and medical science. What he says at different times and in different places doesn’t add up, and some of it is just plain provably wrong.

      Are you saying you’d be more skeptical if he attributed his recovery to the human beings who worked so hard to save him? Because that is where the credit lies. At best if you want to give all credit to Jesus you could say that He helped them, guided them, gave them the medical knowledge, whatever. But human beings spent 30 minutes working their asses off to save this man, and according to the small excerpt of legitimate medical reporting we are allowed to see he was stabilized there on scene BEFORE Jesus had a chance to step into any ambulance. Quite frankly those humans and that medical technology has a hell of a lot more of a “proven record.”

      Where is my worry? Partially its that you are NOT worried. You’re NOT concerned that this man who is supposed to be above reproach – whom until I looked into this story this week even I would have said was sincere and honest – is not telling the truth. NOBODY in the UPC cares to fact check this kind of story. Instead we just blindly accept anything a “Man Of God” has to say, and let the little old ladies who barely scrape by on government assistance, who never have 2 pennies to rub together or to do anything for themselves EVER, “sacrificially give” to support his travels and his lifestyle. We tell them “God will bless them” for their sacrifice but yet they STILL struggle week to week while the good Reverend flies first class, stays in the nicest hotels, and wears the nicest suits.

      If you can’t see why that is wrong you are beyond delusional, “my friend.”

  • yawgentle

    Well, talking about brain washing, I can assure you that I have my brain in the proper place and am speaking for myself and not for any cult. And yes. I’m beyond delusional.

  • aussieapple

    I’m not sure I would go as far to say that Reverend Stoneking is lying, being ex UPC and having met the man, I have a lot of respect for him and genuinely believe that he is doing more good for the world than evil. Not sure I could say the same thing for the UPC as a whole.. But that is a whole other story.

    The Ambulance Service of NSW is one of the most advanced in the world. Our paramedics receive advanced training, somewhere between that of a nurse and doctor. Being ex UPC and also having now worked for the Service for 2 years, I can say that Rev Stoneking’s story is not completely out of the ordinary, whilst uncommon, miracles like this do happen at times. You are correct in saying that the patient would have received oxygen whilst being worked on. I am confused by the DOA paperwork mentioned as I have never heard of this and would be interested to actually read the ambulance report.

    Also, Rev Stoneking had arm pain a couple of days beforehand which he attributed to a previous condition but could very well have been chest pain.

    He could very well have passed that day if not for the saving grace of God, brilliant work of the bystanders, paramedics, doctors etc.

    We describe the chain of survival like cheese with holes in it. On days when the holes all line up, the patient has the best chance of survival. This was definitely one of those days and I don’t believe that accrediting God with this miracle is taking away from the work achieved by medical staff.

  • steadp

    Another point to note is in Australia only a doctor can legally declare a person to be deceased. The filling out of paper work would only of occurred at the hospital and not on the ambulance stretcher – this is why a person is declared dead on arrival.

  • JMS34

    First of all, the same hole poking that your doing to Mr. Stoneking’s story is the same thing that I could do to the new testament. One of the accounts of Jesus mentions one person healed, another mentions two. There are two accounts of Saul’s conversion on the road to damscus that are slightly different, both accounts from Saul. But, I can also gaurantee you this. If Mr. Stoneking were to take a lie detector polygraph, he would pass it. Mr. Stoneking fervently believes his story. What you call lies is can easily be accredited to his human fallibility. First, the conversation that Mr. Stoneking had with the paramedics happened right after his heart attack. It’s unlikely that he would remember his conversation with them with complete accurateness considering how long he was deprived of oxygen. Secondly, he probably made mistaken assumptions. What he thought of in his fogged brain as “DOA paperwork” could easily have just been the paramedic writing down his vitals. Third, he most likely came back to the hospital to get the paramedics and doctors account of his miracle. One of the medics may have said “you were DOA” and he connected that to the “paperwork” the other paramedic was writing down. One paramedic may have told him 30 minutes, another 45 minutes. Fourth, his account of the blood pooling at his hands and feet is most likely another mistaken assumption. Most people, after a heart attack, notice a pallor or grayish or blue skin especially in their hands and feet. This is a result of the lack of oxygenated blood at the extremities which is caused by the lack of air to the lungs. A lot of people make this mistaken assumption. The only thing that you have really proved here is that Mr. King is not a medical professional and just as prone as everyone else is to making mistaken assumptions. That does not change the the possibility that what happened to him was somewhat remarkable especially, for someone his age. If his account is stated to the best of his knowledge and awareness, I would not say he is lying. What is sad is that his physician has not bothered to correct him on said mistaken assumptions.

    • admin Post author

      WOW! I would love to get his take on all of this now that he’s clearly out of the UPC. Makes me wonder if seeing someone like Stoneking be so blatantly dishonest from behind the scenes had anything to do with it??

      • dcl121199

        Jeff, Dr. Young, was “out” of the UPC when Stonekings event took place. I know him well enough to know that I don’t think his story would change. Jeff wouldn’t risk his professional reputation by lying anywhere.

  • blue

    Wow, really, This man devoted his whole life, mind, heart, and soul, to God, and you are going to nick pick on his testimony of healing, No one is perfect, and no matter how he tells it, a miracle, is a miracle, is a miracle! It does not matter what people think, because no matter what you say or what you do, if someone what’s to find fault in someone, if they look hard enough they will find fault in everyone. as I said no one is perfect, What does matter is what God thinks, Because he try’s hard to do Gods will and to live and do the best he can, on this earth for God, and when he sees God , God is going to say, WELL DONE ! WELL DONE!

    • admin Post author

      I’m not nit picking. I’m pointing out obvious lies and falsehoods that if you look at this objectively (I know that’s difficult) don’t so much glorify your god as they do glorify Stoneking. He’s made a career on this, on taking offerings from little old ladies that can’t afford to give but do anyway because this story makes him out to be special. I’m sorry but IF it was really your god who performed such a miracle, don’t you think it would hold up to scrutiny and not need all this embellishment??

  • Tangata

    From the hearing of the Stonekjng UN testimony and your article, I think it is fair to say that he was exaggerating but in full belief of his version of the facts. Remember that it was his version as gathered from the eyewitnesses. He was dead for the 30 minutes.
    But basically I too have suffered in the hands of pentecostal pastors who are sincerely wrong and also who are unscrupulously guilty of gouging the congregation with Malachi 3 and living a good life of the sacrifice of the believers. But one thing for sure and without doubt, they do not reflect the wonderful LORD Jesus Christ. I refuse to allow these scoundrels to rob me of my faith in my God.
    Firstly, didn’t the LORD warn us of such servants who would abuse their fellow servants while He was away? And secondly, Ravi Zacharias answered when asked about whether he ever had a problem with the gospel, “I never had a problem with the gospel itself, it was Christians who I had trouble with.”
    Don’t allow these “rock star” pastors take you fight off salamander and a life with Jesus from you. The one truth that Stoneking did pronounce… Jesus Christ is the answer to the World’s problems especially Islamic fundamentalism and militarism today but alas the once-Christian West no longer believe in Jesus Christ and that is why they don’t have the answer to win this war.

    • admin Post author

      These pastors have not “taken my salvation.” I have realized that what they preach is toxic and consciously rejected it. Stoneking and his exaggerations and all out lies – let’s be real here, he doesn’t believe what he’s saying or the story wouldn’t continue to grow and get more and more extraordinary over the years – is not what caused it. If you’ve read my articles, even after I’d long left the church I expected his story to hold water. I began researching it only after he spoke to the UN and what I really intended was to provide some perspective on that event, showing it wasn’t the watershed moment the UPC folks were making it out to be. I never dreamed he was being anything less than honest until I really looked at the details of his story.

      All respect to Ravi Zacharias, I do have a problem with the gospel itself. The idea that a deity who is all powerful yet powerless to stop his children from disobeying him, who loves us so much he created a place of perpetual torment for those who don’t tow the line… the idea that a deity insists on absolutely every molecule of our devotion and worship yet considers women second class and the root of all evil in his “perfect” creation. Yeah, there’s a lot I reject in that story. I don’t believe for a minute this particular deity is the answer to all the worlds problems. He’d only have us fighting a different war and enslaving different people than ISIS would. No, thank you. I’ll stick with my pagan gods every day of the week.

      • truthspeaking

        Please understand & I think you do, “men” wrote the bible. It has undergone many translations & lost many of its true meaning through that process. With that being said, the only teacher we need is the holy spirit. As with any book, there is always some good & bad you can find in it. I, too, have a problem with things in the Bible, currently, the books that weren’t included. Who made those decisions & by what right? But pagen gods do what for you? Surely you know of free will. Towing the line, as you call it, is not the problem. It’s willful sin w/o repentance. Even after we are saved & spirit filled, we will still sin. It is this reason that makes him a loving God. His spirit corrects us through conviction. Church & preachers are not the answer. It’s a personal relationship w/ God.

        You seem to be knowledgeable in scripture, so how would you explain all the predictions & actual occurrences in our world today, if theres not some truth to it? It is not him that has us fighting in wars. It is evil men that have plotted our demise centuries before we were even born that are doing that. I’d love to have a one on one way of communicating with you, not to convert you but to show you some proofs of knowledge that has been withheld from us since the so-called birth of this corporation, oh I mean country. Then maybe you could see who really has it out for us. You know scripture says we will parish for a lack of knowledge. I’d also like to know what fulfillment you get from pagean gods. How do they get you through this life? Is it possible to have a “real” spiritual connection with the sun or Baal? I, too, work in the medical field & agree with everything you’ve said about Stoneking. I think we could have an interesting dialogue.

        • admin Post author

          I approved this one comment, and I removed your email address from it to spare you a ton of spam. I wanted to answer one of your questions. You ask what fulfillment I get from pagan gods. I will say that they are different, not at all like worshiping the god of the bible. For one, they don’t require you to bow and scrape and surrender your everything to them. Pagans don’t have to be subservient to our gods. Rather, our gods walk beside us and work to help us develop our own gifts to benefit the world as a whole – not just to further exalt one particular deity.

          Currently, I am developing a relationship with The Morrigan, an ancient Irish Goddess of sovereignty, war and sex. She seems to have a goal of making me strong as a woman, of helping me to work through the trauma I experienced in the UPC and in my marriage, and to use that strength to help other marginalized people. It is VASTLY more fulfilling than your “loving god.”

          I do not need to rely on gods to “get me through this life.” Rather, the point of my spirituality is to be strong enough not to need such a crutch. Life, to me, is not some horrible test to be endured but an opportunity to be relished. Good things happen, bad things happen. There is beauty and meaning in both.

          FYI, Baal is a Canaanite deity. He’s not the generic “not-Jehovah” option, and he’s completely irrelevant to anyone not specifically into that pantheon. Believe it or not, Israel is not the center of the universe. The gods I currently have relationship with are in the Irish Celtic pantheon.

          Lastly, “all the predictions & actual occurrences in our world today” are rather easily debunked. Many are examples of self-fulfilling prophesies, many times the “prophecy” was actually written down or edited after the “fulfillment,” and in many others the correlation between the two is quite a stretch. You might want to check into some more objective sources rather than ones with the only goal of reinforcing your belief.

          I have not approved your other comments on this thread as they do not add anything new to the discussion. Further, I have no interest in “discussing” my faith with someone who clearly would not respect it. If you’re curious about paganism – and want to objectively learn, not just shake your head and reinforce your own smug superiority, I’d suggest you check out the Patheos Pagan channel. There are many authors from many different paths that can give you a multitude of perspectives on the questions you raised here.

  • blue

    Why are you throwing stones? Are you perfect, Why do you run others down ? Are you better than everyone else? Why do you question other people’s healing? Are you in their shoes? God said I was hungry, no one gave me food, I was sick, no one helped me, I was naked , No one gave me clothes, Someone said, when were you hungry God, when were you sick, when were you naked , and God said when you do it unto others you do it unto me! Talking about someone who has your back! And when you talk about someone online and call them a liar, you call God a liar, do not understand why you are doing this, We choose our own salvation, you are telling people how to think and what to believe, that is wrong. God bless you anyways.

  • blue

    People who donate money to the church is their choice , if they are low on money I am very sorry, it makes me cry, but still their choice, no one made them do it. Do not blame the church or pastor, because they give to God, that’s why! They just want to give to God.

  • blue

    I am not perfect , all I know is that there is a god, When I was a small child I asked my aunt, if their was no people in the world how did it all start, she said God, but she did not believe in God, I am crying now because she died young. She was beautiful, blonde hair, blue eyes, had health problems , I hope she is in heaven, she was very loving to me and my sister, I know God suffered for our sins , but still scared l don’t know everything, if God suffered for our sins does that mean our love ones who don’t know better will be in heaven, sorry , I do not want to say negative things about people because I want everyone to be in heaven, regardless of what you believe, it’s not people’s fault because of being in this world, and the pressure of going to work to feed and support your family stops someone from knowing God, it’s hard on earth, if you are born and no one told you about God, and you were caught up in life worried about bills , food , ect, you still deserve to be in heaven, the only reason I know about God is because When I was 16 I had a boyfriend, because my parents did not teach me the facts of life, I made a mistake ,even thou my gut told me I hope I never see this boy again, when he gave me a hug it made me feel like I was worth something ,I am going to skip some , and then I lived with his mother, she loved me , and I cared for her , she was in bad health and was afraid to go to church alone in the dark, it made me feel bad so I went with her so she would feel safe, if it was not for my mistake by being involved with her son I would have not known God, when I went to church because I cared for this woman I felt something , I did not understand what the preacher was saying all I knew was God was real. What if others do not get a chance to know God like me, the world is complated, it makes me feel bad, Please stop putting people down and finding fault, we have to work out our own salvation, just you and God, don’t listen to anyone but your heart, I want everyone to go to heaven.and I mean that, sorry , I wish the world was perfect everyone had the same opportunity, God gave us free will, I just want everyone to get a fair shot, if I did not have a boyfriend who had a mother who believed in God I would have not known what I know now , what about other people because of life and what happens they do not have a choice of knowing God , do they still go to heaven , I hope so. I do not know if I get to go to heaven. All I know is I believe in God , I am not perfect ,and I want everyone to go to heaven, and while on earth I want everyone to be healthy and happy, and to be treated fair, I am going though hell because of doctors, if anyone can help me , that would be a blessing. If you believe in God or not , I wish you well.

  • blue

    Lee stoneking does not lie he said what happened to the best of his ability. It’s not like he’s 20 years old on the top of his game. When your unconscious, or dead for 30 minutes it’s hard to know what’s going on, you have to ask other people , and I believe it is a miracle because of his age and his commitment to God. The testimony does not have to be perfect, the bottom line is God is real. He’s not going to heal everyone , because he knows the end result, I trust God to do what he feels best for my life, like a parent, kids get mad because mom or dad says no, it’s because they love you and it is the best for you. And I am thankful god loves me enough to say no. If he says no and does not answer your prayer it does not mean he is not with you. It will be o.k

    • admin Post author

      It’s been quite well proven that Stoneking does lie and is lying. About many things, not just this particular story. Your comment about people giving money when they don’t have it is just “their choice…” I’m sorry but that really bothers me. People are told they’ll go to Hell if they don’t give. That they’ll get miracles if they do. Like so much in these churches – especially the UPC – there’s quite a bit of psychological pressure behind the experience. Nothing anyone does is completely by choice because they’re being manipulated to think and believe what the leadership wants them to. If you can’t see that then you’re the one who’s blind.

  • Endront

    Admin your assessment of “no stable output”, is correct.

    When some one is in “critical condition”, they have unstable vitals. It is part of the reason they are considered to be in “critical condition”. After seeing his speech it sounds like a fairly typical experience for someone who has just suffered from a heart attack.

    As for the genetic markers for heart disease.

    Genetic markers can vary a lot between individuals, the presence or lack of such of a particular genetic marker simply means either his family doesn’t have that marker, or that he himself has a slight genetic abnormality. That’s it.

    Nothing he described, in either the UN address nor his blog sounded out of the norm for a surviving heart attack patient who was touch and go in the ambulance.

    • Gary Lord's Way Ministries International

      I have only one thing to say, I used to belong to them myself, I was in route to being an ordained minister with them, and the Lord told me to come out from among the unclean; so I did, myself and my wife who had been with them for about 20+ years or so.
      I appreciate your article and trying your best to take all things into consideration but with that said, I too have been a product of miracles from the Lord Jesus, with documented proofs of more than two miracles that are backed up with medical proofs; so I know what I am talking about in my case. With all this said and done, Jesus always gets the glory and no other being He is God manifest in the flesh 1 Tm.3:16!
      All that said; I still think all you have to say can be said without disrespect to others and would have a lot more credibility if you used proper language other than the language of the world that definitely lies in its own wickedness 1 Jn.5:19, without your added help.

      Lord’s Way Ministries International
      Rev. G. L. Boyett

      • admin Post author

        In case you haven’t noticed, this is not a Christian blog. I am no longer a Christian. The purpose of a blog is to express the thoughts and ideas of the writer. If people want to read it, then great. If not, then just move on. But I’m not obligated to use anything you consider “proper language other than the language of the world.” This is my voice, my thoughts and you can take them or leave them, I really don’t care.

        In my never-to-be-humble opinion, Lee Stoneking deserves no respect. The man lies, and while ostensibly he’s “giving Jesus glory” he also gets quite a lot of personal glory from this story. It gets him invited to speak in more churches and makes little old ladies want to put more of their Social Security checks in the offering plate. He has greatly benefited from this lie, and it has come at the expense of those who take his word at face value because they’re taught that the “man of god” is above reproach.

        That’s a hell of a lot worse than any “disrespect” I’ve thrown his way.

        • Peace4

          I just saw this video today. Rev. Stoneking has shared an amazing and powerful message. I know that you wanted to express your views, l am a Christian myself and have also gone through one of God’s amazing miraculous healing in my life. He is just trying to help everyone including the person who has put up this mess about the poor Reverend that Jesus Christ is the only solution to every problems we are facing in our world today, you name it. After this you will say that this is not a Christian blog, why don’t you just humble yourself and try and understand what He is trying to do. He is trying to help you save your poor soul from Hell.

          • admin Post author

            How “amazing and powerful” can a message be if it’s demonstrably exaggerated and/ or lied about? Seriously. I spent 20 years looking to Jesus Christ as the “only solution to every problems [sic]” and it got me pretty much nowhere. I’ve tried the “humble yourself and try and understand” route (again, 20 years worth…). I know exactly what the “good Reverend” is trying to do here.

            He’s trying to ensure that sweet innocent little old widow ladies continue to put money they don’t have in the offering plate when he comes to their church to repeat this lie. So he can continue to travel the world in first class style. That’s what he’s ‘trying to do.’ I assure you, it has nothing to do with my soul, which, by the way, is anything but poor.

            I don’t believe in your Hell, nor do I particularly care what you think is going to happen to me. If you’d read beyond the Stoneking mess on this blog, you’d know that I’m exceedingly happy and fulfilled with the path I’m on now. I have great relationships with gods who don’t require bowing and scraping, and quite frankly they’ve done a hell of a lot more for me in the last 2 years than yours did over the previous 20.

            There are many paths. Yours isn’t the only one. And Lee Stoneking sure as HELL isn’t a shining example of a good path to any holy place.

  • Erander89

    Thank you for digging into this for everyone’s benefit. I hate how overly simplified “miracles” are portrayed. If it were a miracle, It would be that simple, but since this wasn’t as simple as it was portrayed, why still call it a miracle?

  • ken

    Your blog title is Pentecostal to Pagan. Have you given up on all things of the universal church? I’m not Pentecostal but I do believe God still can and does work miracles, which involves physicians, ministers and sometimes simple people like me. I believe our only real hope is in Jesus Christ because He does have the answer for the needs of the world. Which is a four-letter word called love. Do you agree or disagree?

    I know, regretfully because I’d really like to believe, that many preachers are little more than con artists or exaggerators. You’ve obviously taken a lot of time to discount Lee Stoneking as such. But can you throw all other ministers who preach healing under this same bus? I’m truly seeking truth here, not being critical.

    Thanks!

    • admin Post author

      I’ve been very clear on this blog what I now believe. I do not believe Jesus is our “only hope” and am no longer Christian. I’m very happy serving the Old Gods, who have helped me to be more truly loving to myself and my community than the judgmental god of Christianity ever did. I have known many sincere Christians and ministers, and many who were just on ego trips. Like any group of people, there are good and bad to be found.

  • SirenSpell

    I have watched several sermons by Lee Stoneking. I always had this bad intuitive feeling about him, but I couldn’t put my finger on it. Some of my family had gone to hear him preach once and it “changed their life.” I heard many things about his miraculousness. Yet, I still had that feeling. It’s so disheartening and confusing to learn that the truth we’ve known our whole lives is not the truth at all.

  • steadp

    I was in the prayer room before the service where he was going to preach in Sydney and a few others dragged me out and threw me down the stairs. He told me later that I was going to die.